From: To: Subject: [eternity] Digest Number 5 Date: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 5:23 AM --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- ONElist: the best source for group communications. http://www.onelist.com Join a new list today! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ There are 24 messages in this issue. Topics in today's digest: 1. Re: So, who are you guys, anyway ? From: "Miroslav Vicher" 2. Re: So, who are you guys, anyway ? From: Mark Parry 3. Re: So, who are you guys, anyway ? From: "Brendan Owen" 4. Re: So, who are you guys, anyway ? From: DSaund2773@aol.com 5. Re: So, who are you guys, anyway ? From: path@multipro.com.au 6. Re: So, who are you guys, anyway ? From: "Steve Barley" 7. Re: answers to questions From: Martin Watson 8. Re: So, who are you guys, anyway ? From: whuang@ugcs.caltech.edu (Wei-Hwa Huang) 9. Re: So, who are you guys, anyway ? From: Derrick Schneider 10. Who I am From: James Kittock 11. Re: So, who are you guys, anyway ? From: "Phillips, Roger" 12. Re: So, who are you guys, anyway ? From: "Per Knarberg" 13. Re: So, who are you guys, anyway ? From: NickGard@aol.com 14. this is me From: "Paul White" 15. Re: So, who are you guys, anyway ? From: "William Waite" 16. Re: So, who are you guys, anyway ? From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Pierre-Fran=E7ois_Culand?=" 17. Re: So, who are you guys, anyway ? From: redbaron@cix.compulink.co.uk (Richard Marsden) 18. Re: So, who are you guys, anyway ? From: "Bob Harris" 19. Re: [[eternity] Known Pieces] From: david sprenkle 20. Count check From: redbaron@cix.compulink.co.uk (Richard Marsden) 21. Re: Count check From: "Brendan Owen" 22. Re: Count check From: path@multipro.com.au 23. if I had a 1000.000.... From: Andreas Gammel 24. Re: So, who are you guys, anyway? From: "Larry Knerr" _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ Message: 1 Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 14:03:51 +0200 From: "Miroslav Vicher" Subject: Re: So, who are you guys, anyway ? Hi Can you publish the webs and e-mail you receive? If you don't have web server I can offer you space at my server. Mira QUESTIONS -------------- What's your..... name : Mira Vicher age : 28 occupation : physicist city : Prague country : Czech rep. email : vicher@mbox.troja.mff.cuni.cz homepage : http://alpha.ujep.cz/~vicher/puzzle Are you an active problem-solver, or just here out of general interest ? ------- active ------- Do you hope that by listening to this list, you'll get the vital hint that'll make you win the prize ? ------- maybe ------- Do you own an Eternity puzzle ? ------- no ------- What's your best attempt by hand ? ------- 0 ------- What's your best attempt by computer ? ------- what you mean by best attempt? say 200 ------- What language / system / pc are you using ? ------- Pentium 400 MS Visual Fortran 90 ------- What algorithms / heuristics do you use for Eternity (brute force, backtracking, genetic algothims, simulated annealing, SECRET) ? ------- sophisticated brute force ------- Did you type in all 209 pieces yourself ? ------- yes ------- Did you try any simpler variations of Eternity ? ------- tridrafters ------- Do you know some other interesting web-sites ? ------- many ------- Other hobbies ? ------- everything, natural sciences - history - mountains ------- Other physical puzzles ? ------- ------- Other programming projects ? ------- ------- Are you willing to show the group your source code (after removing your secret functions) ? ------- It's incomprehensible even to me ------- Any other stuff you like to add ? ------- ------- Do you know any other interesting problems ? ------- ------- What's the meaning of life ? ------- _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 13:05:27 +0100 From: Mark Parry Subject: Re: So, who are you guys, anyway ? QUESTIONS -------------- What's your..... name [Mark Parry] Mark Parry age [Mark Parry] 38 occupation [Mark Parry] Technical Support city [Mark Parry] Swansea country [Mark Parry] Wales (UK) email [Mark Parry] mparry@mertec.co.uk homepage [Mark Parry] http://treasure.mertec.co.uk/tathc/ Are you an active problem-solver, or just here out of general interest ? [Mark Parry] I love puzzles, however I haven't done anything with computer solutions since working on Diamond Dilemma many years ago. Do you hope that by listening to this list, you'll get the vital hint that'll make you win the prize ? [Mark Parry] No, well maybe ;-) Do you own an Eternity puzzle ? [Mark Parry] Yes What's your best attempt by hand ? [Mark Parry] I counted and numbered all of the pieces, only one missing (86) and one duplicate (85). What's your best attempt by computer ? [Mark Parry] Still working on that. What language / system / pc are you using ? [Mark Parry] Delphi, Win98, Pentium What algorithms / heuristics do you use for Eternity (brute force, backtracking, genetic algothims, simulated annealing, SECRET) ? [Mark Parry] Or all of the above! Did you type in all 209 pieces yourself ? [Mark Parry] Not yet Did you try any simpler variations of Eternity ? [Mark Parry] Yep, mad a little 15 piece puzzle Do you know some other interesting web-sites ? [Mark Parry] Many but not to do with Eternity Other hobbies ? [Mark Parry] Armchair Treasure Hunting (Masquerade - Kit Williams) http://treasure.mertec.co.uk/tathc/ Other physical puzzles ? [Mark Parry] Many and various Other programming projects ? [Mark Parry] Only the odd hobby. Are you willing to show the group your source code (after removing your secret functions) ? [Mark Parry] Once it's running sure. Any other stuff you like to add ? [Mark Parry] No Do you know any other interesting problems ? [Mark Parry] Understanding what the heck Parity is all about. What's the meaning of life ? [Mark Parry] 42 For Eternity Mark _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 22:20:11 +1000 From: "Brendan Owen" Subject: Re: So, who are you guys, anyway ? QUESTIONS -------------- What's your..... name : Brendan Owen age : 25 occupation : Electrical Engineering PhD Student city : Melbourne country : Australia email : bdowen@ee.mu.oz.au homepage : http://www.cs.mu.oz.au/~bdowen ------- Are you an active problem-solver, or just here out of general interest ? ------- Active. I've been solving or trying to solve new puzzles for quiet some time. Most of these involves using a computer, but lately I've been getting into the mathematical side as well. I have solved or partially solved a number of questions possed on Erich's web site. http://www.stetson.edu/~efriedma/mathmagic/ ------- Do you hope that by listening to this list, you'll get the vital hint that'll make you win the prize ? ------- Yes, but leasoning to others helps me expand some of my own ideas. ------- Do you own an Eternity puzzle ? Yes. I got my puzzle last week after ordering it on the 20th of may. I had been waiting for it for ages and when it finally came I was in the middle of marking exams so I had to wait a few days before I could play with it. ------- ------- What's your best attempt by hand ? ------- 209 with about 209+ gaps and 209+ overlaps. ------- What's your best attempt by computer ? ------- 150 ------- What language / system / pc are you using ? ------- C++ Win95 and unix, Pentium 400 and 16 x 600MHz decalphas ------- What algorithms / heuristics do you use for Eternity (brute force, backtracking, genetic algothims, simulated annealing, SECRET) ? ------- I've tried brute force, backtracking, genetic algorithms and neural networks all failures. ------- Did you type in all 209 pieces yourself ? ------- No, I wrote a computer vision system to convert Ed's pictures to my data representation (I try to automate everything). When I got my puzzle I used the system to double check the pieces. ------- Did you try any simpler variations of Eternity ? ------- I've tried hexadudes and completely balanced octadudes. I've also done some previous work with polyominos. ------- Do you know some other interesting web-sites ? ------- ------- Other hobbies ? ------- ------- Other physical puzzles ? ------- ------- Other programming projects ? ------- My research is a computer vision system to recognize and count fish as they swim past a camera. ------- Are you willing to show the group your source code (after removing your secret functions) ? ------- Once it works. ------- Any other stuff you like to add ? ------- ------- Do you know any other interesting problems ? ------- ------- What's the meaning of life ? ------- _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 09:34:58 EDT From: DSaund2773@aol.com Subject: Re: So, who are you guys, anyway ? Name: Dick Saunders Age: 46 Occupation: Unemployed City: Madison State: Wisconsin Country: USA Email: hometown.aol.com/dsaund2773/index.html Active problem solver: Rubiks Cube was good. Like puzzles that fascinate with their complexity. Do you hope that by listening to this list, you'll get the vital hint that will help you win the prize? I would hope to get suggestions on improving on my method of approach. Do you own Eternity puzzle yet? Not yet. What is your best attempt by computer? It is not that far along. What algorithms do you use for Eternity? A variation on brute force. Did you type in all 209 pieces yourself? Yes. Other programming projects: Number theory. Factoring algorithms. Ideas for many others. Are you willing to show the group your source code? If we have a working relationship that involves sharing the prize. _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 21:36:49 +0800 From: path@multipro.com.au Subject: Re: So, who are you guys, anyway ? Patrick M Hamlyn@MULTIPROGRAMMING 06/28/99 09:36 PM ------- Are you an active problem-solver, or just here out of general interest ? ------- Active ------- Do you hope that by listening to this list, you'll get the vital hint that'll make you win the prize ? ------- Oh sure :> ------- Do you own an Eternity puzzle ? ------- Yup from Hotbox ------- What's your best attempt by hand ? ------- 6 pieces ------- What's your best attempt by computer ? ------- 178 pieces ------- What language / system / pc are you using ? ------- Borland C/Win 95/PII-450 ------- What algorithms / heuristics do you use for Eternity (brute force, backtracking, genetic algothims, simulated annealing, SECRET) ? ------- brute force with pruning & directed searching, partitioning, combinations of the two ------- Did you type in all 209 pieces yourself ? ------- yup, took hours ------- Did you try any simpler variations of Eternity ? ------- sure: make 8 hexagons with 72 pieces make a sawblade with 5 pieces tiled all sorts of other smaller shapes tridrafters and hexadudes into convex shapes ------- Do you know some other interesting web-sites ? ------- uh...nope ------- Other hobbies ? ------- windsurfing ------- Other physical puzzles ? ------- pat my head while rubbing my tummy ------- Other programming projects ? ------- tiling/packing polyominos & polyiamonds ------- Are you willing to show the group your source code (after removing your secret functions) ? ------- sure, but you won't like reading it ------- What's the meaning of life ? - windsurfing but you knew that, right... _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ Message: 6 Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 14:57:51 +0100 From: "Steve Barley" Subject: Re: So, who are you guys, anyway ? QUESTIONS -------------- name : Steve Barley age : 34 occupation : Software Engineer city : Malvern, Worcs. country : UK email : steve@camtek.co.uk homepage : ------- Are you an active problem-solver, or just here out of general interest ? ------- active ------- Do you hope that by listening to this list, you'll get the vital hint that'll make you win the prize ? ------- Maybe, just maybe. ------- Do you own an Eternity puzzle ? ------- no ------- What's your best attempt by hand ? ------- about 6 or 7 pieces ------- What's your best attempt by computer ? ------- none yet ------- What language / system / pc are you using ? ------- C++ / NT 4.0 / Pentium II ------- What algorithms / heuristics do you use for Eternity (brute force, backtracking, genetic algothims, simulated annealing, SECRET) ? ------- none yet ------- Did you type in all 209 pieces yourself ? ------- no ------- Did you try any simpler variations of Eternity ? ------- I tried the simple puzzle on the Eternity home page but gave up. ------- Do you know some other interesting web-sites ? ------- no ------- Other hobbies ? ------- gardening, non-uniform rational b-splines ------- Other physical puzzles ? ------- None ------- Other programming projects ? ------- work (CADCAM - surface/solid modelling) keeps me very busy ------- Are you willing to show the group your source code (after removing your secret functions) ? ------- sure ------- Any other stuff you like to add ? ------- ------- Do you know any other interesting problems ? ------- what's all this parity stuff about - anybody got a proper definition of it? ------- What's the meaning of life ? ------- Keep smiling _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ Message: 7 Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 15:02:23 +0100 From: Martin Watson Subject: Re: answers to questions > name :Martin H. Watson > age :41 > occupation : IT project manager > city :London > country :England > email :martin@martnal.free-online.co.uk > homepage :members.tripod.com/~martnal/puzzles.html > > ------- > Are you an active problem-solver, or just here out of general interest ? > I'm a collector, (and sometime solver!) of puzzles. I admire the marketing of a product which has caught the imagination of puzzlers and mathematicians and IT folk in such a short time, although I think the pieces are ugly, both physically and also (especially) being a fairly random subset of a finite set, and the board shape isn't pleasing. > ------- > > > ------- > Do you hope that by listening to this list, you'll get the vital hint > that'll make you win the prize ? > ------- No > ------- > Do you own an Eternity puzzle ? > ------- No - I wouldn't give it shelf-space. > ------- > What's your best attempt by hand ? > ------- x > ------- > What's your best attempt by computer ? > ------- x > ------- > What language / system / pc are you using ? > ------- x > ------- > What algorithms / heuristics do you use for Eternity > (brute force, backtracking, genetic algothims, simulated annealing, > SECRET) ? > ------- x > ------- > Did you type in all 209 pieces yourself ? > ------- x > ------- > Did you try any simpler variations of Eternity ? > ------- > > ------- > Do you know some other interesting web-sites ? > ------- See mine for directions to some of my favourites > ------- > Other hobbies ? > ------- Playing go, drinking real ale, 40s/50s music, > ------- > Other physical puzzles ? > ------- Many, I like polyominoes, disentanglement/metal puzzles, sliding piece puzzles. > ------- > Other programming projects ? > ------- x > ------- > Are you willing to show the group your source code (after removing your > secret functions) ? > ------- x > ------- > Any other stuff you like to add ? > ------- I dislike the concept of using computers to solve puzzles. It's Ok to use a computer to design them, or to identify the minimum number of solutions, but writing software to solve a puzzle, as opposed to a real-life problem seems strange. It seems like entering your software in the World Chess Championship instead of becoming a grand master yourself. > ------- > Do you know any other interesting problems ? > ------- Yesterday I made Trevor Wood's Holey Cube (and solved it fairly quickly, but it's a great puzzle.) It prompted to me to start thinking of a cube assembly puzzle where each piece is visible on each face of the cube. I'm not aware of it having been done already, but it wouldn't surprise me if it has. Maximising the number of pieces sounds like a good challenge. > ------- > What's the meaning of life ? > ------- The one who dies with the most toys wins. _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ Message: 8 Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 07:35:00 -0700 (PDT) From: whuang@ugcs.caltech.edu (Wei-Hwa Huang) Subject: Re: So, who are you guys, anyway ? Andreas Gammel typed something like this in a previous message: > name : Wei-Hwa Huang > age : 23 > occupation : Information Technology Engineer, blah blah blah > city : near Washington DC > country : USA > email : whuang@ugcs.caltech.edu (casual account) > homepage : http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~whuang > > Are you an active problem-solver, or just here out of general interest ? I solve many problems. Some of them I even get paid to solve. :-) Some of them are puzzles! (But I don't get paid to solve those.) But I'm not active in solving Eternity. I'm on the list because I've played with polydrafters in the past, having independently invented them last year, and wouldn't mind seeing what techniques other people use and see if I can apply them to my own puzzles. > Do you hope that by listening to this list, you'll get the vital hint > that'll make you win the prize ? Hope? Of course! Do I expect it? Nope! I don't plan to expend much effort on Eternity, if at all. > What algorithms / heuristics do you use for Eternity > (brute force, backtracking, genetic algothims, simulated annealing, > SECRET) ? I don't attack Eternity, but my attacks are mostly (pruned) brute force. > Did you try any simpler variations of Eternity ? Yes and no. As far as anyone knows, I'm the first person to find a convex shape that the 13 didrafters fit into. My favorite set is an assortment of 20 polydrafter triangles and quadrilaterals that assemble into many shapes. I'm hoping it can become the next "pentominoes". > What language / system / pc are you using ? C/C++ for computation, Perl for formatting and "data conversion," sometimes (I hate those C/C++ I/O libraries.) System: Linux, usually. > What algorithms / heuristics do you use for Eternity > (brute force, backtracking, genetic algothims, simulated annealing, > SECRET) ? I don't attack Eternity, but my attacks are mostly (pruned) brute force. > Did you try any simpler variations of Eternity ? Yes and no. As far as anyone knows, I'm the first person to find a convex shape that the 13 didrafters fit into. My favorite set is an assortment of 20 polydrafter triangles and quadrilaterals that assemble into many shapes. I'm hoping it can become the next "pentominoes". Some of these images are available at http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~whuang/gp/drafters/ > Are you willing to show the group your source code (after removing your > secret functions) ? Of course. If it helps anyone, I wouldn't mind a share of the prize. The code is at http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~whuang/prog/drafters2/ I have a very elegant representation of drafters that is very easy to convert to bits -- I can send an explanation for anyone that's interested. Or you might try to figure it out yourself. I suggest looking at http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~whuang/prog/drafters2/tri2.dft (grid-aligned tridrafters) http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~whuang/prog/drafters2/tri2full.dft (grid-aligned tridrafters, all orientations) http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~whuang/prog/drafters2/trisol3.dft (problem 3 [a trapezoid] for the tridrafters) http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~whuang/prog/drafters2/trisol3.out (solutions for problem 3, giving each piece's location and position) http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~whuang/prog/drafters2/trisol3.prn (visual representation of the solution in trisol3.out) I type in the set by hand. I use one program to convert the set to a file with all the orientations. I type in the problem by hand. I use a second program to "solve" the puzzle. I use a third program to create the ".prn" file. The source code is in the *.cpp files. Caveat: I'm a very fast programmer who doesn't document much and abuses global variables and stuff. I'm also pretty heavy on recusion, so my code's pretty difficult to read. The good thing is that the code runs pretty fast and I also program pretty fast -- I reckon I've spent about 30 hours on these programs all told! > Do you know some other interesting web-sites ? > Other hobbies ? Depends on what you mean by interesting. I know many, many, web-sites. How about http://www.puzzles-usa.com/ ? I'll be represting the US at the next World Puzzle Championship. Other hobbies -- Video Games (puzzles, of course), Pinball, Comic Books (including Japanese), etc., etc., ... aw heck. Just look at: http://www.deja.com/profile.xp?author=whuang@ugcs.caltech.edu http://www.deja.com/profile.xp?author=whuang@cco.caltech.edu > Other physical puzzles ? My collection is growing. At present I may have only 150 or so mechanical puzzles. > Other programming projects ? Any programming that isn't work related I only bother if I can do it fast. They usually end up being programs tailored to solve puzzles. Feel free to browse http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~whuang/prog/ to look at them. > Do you know any other interesting problems ? Ooh, a trick question. I know many interesting problems, but I don't consider Eternity an interesting problem. So I don't know any "OTHER" interesting problems. > What's the meaning of life ? A very funny movie by Monty Python. -- Wei-Hwa Huang, whuang@ugcs.caltech.edu, http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~whuang/ --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "You may outrank me, but a bath will change that." _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ Message: 9 Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 08:37:40 -0700 From: Derrick Schneider Subject: Re: So, who are you guys, anyway ? QUESTIONS -------------- What's your..... name : Derrick Schneider age : 28 occupation : Programmer city : Oakland country : USA email : derrick@misfit.com homepage : ------- Are you an active problem-solver, or just here out of general interest ? Active. I've been doing "paper puzzles" all my life but in the last few years I've gotten into collecting and designing mechanical puzzles. ------- ------- Do you hope that by listening to this list, you'll get the vital hint that'll make you win the prize ? ------- Well, I hope so. But I doubt it. I'm manually solving, so program discussions aren't that useful. ------- Do you own an Eternity puzzle ? ------- Yes ------- What's your best attempt by hand ? ------- About a fifth of the board. But I'm not working too actively, since I work for a startup. When I need a break, I place a few pieces and then get back to work. ------- What's your best attempt by computer ? ------- n/a ------- What language / system / pc are you using ? ------- n/a ------- What algorithms / heuristics do you use for Eternity (brute force, backtracking, genetic algothims, simulated annealing, SECRET) ? ------- basic polyform tiling strategy (place the awkward pieces, etc.) I'm curious. Is anyone using genetic algorithms? I thought about that, but I don't have the time to implement it. ------- Did you type in all 209 pieces yourself ? ------- n/a ------- Did you try any simpler variations of Eternity ? ------- Not really. I followed some of the earlier discussion and sample problems at Ed Pegg's site, but I didn't have my pieces until recently. Also, I still have not received my mini-puzzles (Heart, Meteor, and Delta) ------- Do you know some other interesting web-sites ? ------- Well, for mechanical puzzles, http://www.johnrausch.com/PuzzleWorld, http://www.gamepuzzles.com (Kadon) ------- Other hobbies ? ------- Oh, goodness. How much space do we have? To cover the big ones, my biggest passion in life is reading. I also love making/designing quilts, and am focused on quilts based on mechanical puzzles (primarily dissection puzzles) and recreational mathematics. I enjoy cooking quasi-gourmet food. I'm an opera buff. Some of my minor hobbies include kyudo (Japanese archery) and bullwhips (not, I must say, for the reason that most people in the SF Bay Area are into bullwhips; I got into it through juggling). ------- Other physical puzzles ? ------- I've got about 200-300 mechanical puzzles, a number which is constantly growing. ------- Other programming projects ? ------- Work for a startup is plenty. ------- Are you willing to show the group your source code (after removing your secret functions) ? ------- n/a ------- Any other stuff you like to add ? ------- ------- Do you know any other interesting problems ? ------- How does one keep one's cat off the Eternity board? I got about a fifth of the board covered, and the next morning discovered my cat sprawled across the pieces, which were no longer in any usable form. I had wanted to revise my strategy anyway, having placed too many of the non-awkward pieces, so this just gave me an excuse to start over. ------- What's the meaning of life ? ------- My parents always drilled into me that it was to make a contribution to society. _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ Message: 10 Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 09:32:36 -0700 From: James Kittock Subject: Who I am QUESTIONS -------------- What's your..... name : James Kittock age : 29 occupation : misc. high-tech stuff city : Palo Alto, California country : USA email : kittock@interval.com homepage : www.animal-farm.sf.ca.us ------- Are you an active problem-solver, or just here out of general interest ? ------- Somewhat active. Working on a program to solve Eternity. ------- Do you hope that by listening to this list, you'll get the vital hint that'll make you win the prize ? ------- No, but it could happen I suppose. Mostly, I just like hearing about other approaches and near-success stories. And, of course, I'd like to know the moment anyone thinks they've solved it. :-) ------- Do you own an Eternity puzzle ? ------- A friend and I bought one together, but it hasn't arrived yet. ------- What's your best attempt by hand ? ------- n/a ------- What's your best attempt by computer ? ------- Haven't yet encoded the pieces for the full puzzle. ------- What language / system / pc are you using ? ------- I'm writing my program in C++ on Windows using the Borland C++ 5.0 compiler. ------- What algorithms / heuristics do you use for Eternity (brute force, backtracking, genetic algothims, simulated annealing, SECRET) ? ------- My original program was a simple depth-first search solver. I am transitioning it to a beam search (this form of search keeps a list of "open" nodes of a constant size). My main heuristic (for now) will be constrained-ness, not so much because I think this will necessarily lead to the solution, but it will make it faster to search the tree! ------- Did you type in all 209 pieces yourself ? ------- Not yet. ------- Did you try any simpler variations of Eternity ? ------- Yes, I used the Java puzzle creator to create a 36-piece puzzle which I encoded and am using to test my program. ------- Do you know some other interesting web-sites ? ------- Nope. ------- Other hobbies ? ------- Poker, other card games, reading, role-playing games, outdoors stuff: tennis, hiking... ------- Other physical puzzles ? ------- Actually, I'm normally not a big puzzle fan. I think puzzles are neat, but I don't have the patience to solve them. ------- Other programming projects ? ------- Not right now. I was working on some simulators for gambling games (blackjack, poker). ------- Are you willing to show the group your source code (after removing your secret functions) ? ------- Sure. ------- Any other stuff you like to add ? ------- I'd be interested in joining other people who are actively working on the problem in a "pool". This wouldn't necessarily mean working together, it would just increase the chance of winning something. I would propose the following structure: N people sign a contract to enter the pool. If one of these people wins the prize he/she keeps half, and the others split the other half evenly among them. ------- Do you know any other interesting problems ? ------- Uh, twin primes conjecture? Goldbach's conjecture? :-) ------- What's the meaning of life ? ------- Since someone already used my quip (42), I'll have to give my serious answer: there is none. :-) _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ Message: 11 Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 17:37:58 +0100 From: "Phillips, Roger" Subject: Re: So, who are you guys, anyway ? Ok, here goes: > name : Roger Phillips > age : 39 > occupation : software developer > city : London > country : UK > email : roger@spss.com > homepage : none > Are you an active problem-solver, or just here out of > general interest? Er, active-wannabe. > Do you hope that by listening to this list, you'll get > the vital hint that'll make you win the prize ? Of course. > Do you own an Eternity puzzle ? Yep. Bought it almost by accident: I happened to be passing Hamley's, so I popped in. > What's your best attempt by hand ? Nearly 100 pieces. This is my first attempt, just casually fiddling with it as I pass the dining table. > What's your best attempt by computer ? 0 > What language / system / pc are you using ? If I ever get around to working on it, it'll be C++/Windows 98/Pentium laptop. > What algorithms / heuristics do you use for Eternity > (brute force, backtracking, genetic algothims, simulated > annealing, SECRET) ? Directed meditation. > Did you type in all 209 pieces yourself ? Not yet. > Did you try any simpler variations of Eternity ? Only Ed's drafter challenges. > Do you know some other interesting web-sites ? Probably no more than you do. > Other hobbies ? Composing crosswords. > Other physical puzzles ? Not since I was a teenager. > Other programming projects ? Yes, it's my job. > Are you willing to show the group your source code > (after removing your secret functions) ? Yes, once I've (a) written it, and (b) received confirmation that my solution's been received! > Any other stuff you like to add ? Nope. > Do you know any other interesting problems ? Nope. > What's the meaning of life ? False. -- Roger Phillips roger@spss.com "*salangane* a swiftlet (Collocalia) that builds edible nests" -- Chambers Dictionary on CD-ROM (1994) _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ Message: 12 Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 20:46:05 +0200 From: "Per Knarberg" Subject: Re: So, who are you guys, anyway ? -----Original Message----- From: Andreas Gammel To: eternity@onelist.com Date: 28. juni 1999 13:36 Subject: [eternity] So, who are you guys, anyway ? Hi all, we just welcomed our 76th mailing list member. And still going strong. I thought it would be a nice idea to get to know the group a bit better. That's why I composed a little list of questions. I'd like you to fill it out, and send it to the list. just answer any question you feel like, but if you don't like it, then don't, its a free world... Andreas QUESTIONS -------------- What's your..... name : Per Knarberg age : 33 occupation : Software engineer city : Ølstykke country : Denmark email : pknarberg@danbbs.dk homepage : www.danbbs.dk/~pknarb ------- Are you an active problem-solver, or just here out of general interest ? ------- Sometimes. ------- Do you hope that by listening to this list, you'll get the vital hint that'll make you win the prize ? ------- Yep! ------- Do you own an Eternity puzzle ? ------- Yes, bought one the other day. ------- What's your best attempt by hand ? ------- I haven't been trying that hard but I'm taking it with me on my summerholiday along with my mother law so there should be plenty of time. Not that I believe that's it's ever gonna be solved by hand. ------- What's your best attempt by computer ? ------- Haven't tried yet. Still thinking of the best approach. ------- What language / system / pc are you using ? ------- C++, Win NT 4, 200 Mhz Pentium MMX ------- What algorithms / heuristics do you use for Eternity (brute force, backtracking, genetic algothims, simulated annealing, SECRET) ? ------- Don't know yet. Maybe brute force with some intelligence (parity) ------- Did you type in all 209 pieces yourself ? ------- Nope, but I know of a place on the web where there's a text-file with the definition of all 209 pieces. ------- Did you try any simpler variations of Eternity ? ------- No ------- Do you know some other interesting web-sites ? ------- Too many to mention. ------- Other hobbies ? ------- Not too many ------- Other physical puzzles ? ------- No ------- Other programming projects ? ------- Many, it's my job. ------- Are you willing to show the group your source code (after removing your secret functions) ? ------- Only after it's been confirmed that my solution has reached Monckton ------- Any other stuff you like to add ? ------- I once came across this puzzle: "This sentence contains _ 0's, _ 1's, _ 2's ....... _ 9's". Fill in the blanks with one digit values so that the sentence is true. From millions of combinations, the following code snippet is able to find the solution in no more than 3-4 iterations: int n[10] = { 0,0,0,0,0,0,0, 0, 0, 0 }; int Count(int t) { int c = 1; for(int x = 0; x < 10; x++) if(n[x] == t && c < 9) c++; return c; } void Dump() { for(int x = 0; x < 10; x++) printf("%i ", n[x]); printf("\n"); } int main(int argc, char* argv[]) { int x, c; bool ok = false; while(!ok) { for(x = 0; x < 10; x++) n[x] = Count(x); for(x = 0; x < 10; x++) { c = Count(x); if(n[x] != c) { n[x] = c; break; } } ok = x == 10; Dump(); } return 0; } ------- Do you know any other interesting problems ? ------- ------- What's the meaning of life ? ------- My family but 1 million pound wouldn't be bad either _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ Message: 13 Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 15:04:59 EDT From: NickGard@aol.com Subject: Re: So, who are you guys, anyway ? name : Nick Gardner age : 31 occupation : Accountant city : Portsmouth country : England email : nickgard@aol.com homepage : None ------- Are you an active problem-solver, or just here out of general interest ? ------- Active in a hobby sort of way. ------- Do you hope that by listening to this list, you'll get the vital hint that'll make you win the prize ? ------- Maybe. You never know where inspiration may come from. ------- Do you own an Eternity puzzle ? ------- Yes. ------- What's your best attempt by hand ? ------- Perhaps about 100 pieces tiled nicely, and still in progress albeit slowly. ------- What's your best attempt by computer ? ------- Computer? Now there's an idea! ------- What language / system / pc are you using ? ------- I'll probably use C or C++. Windows 95. Old PC :-( ------- What algorithms / heuristics do you use for Eternity (brute force, backtracking, genetic algothims, simulated annealing, SECRET) ? ------- I might try GA to get a near solution and then see if I can devise a methodology for finishing off. ------- Did you type in all 209 pieces yourself ? ------- Not yet. Maybe I'll get my cat to do it as a payback for the number of times she's pounced into the middle of my Eternity Puzzle. :-) ------- Did you try any simpler variations of Eternity ? ------- I solved the one on the Eternity Puzzle website in less than 1 minute. I think it was more luck than anything though. ------- Do you know some other interesting web-sites ? ------- I know several, but not Eternity related. ------- Other hobbies ? ------- Astronomy, Golf, Juggling. ------- Other physical puzzles ? ------- I dabble with pentominoes occasionally. ------- Other programming projects ? ------- Nothing serious. A GA approach to Golomb Rulers that I wrote in good old Microsoft QBasic was quite interesting. ------- Are you willing to show the group your source code (after removing your secret functions) ? ------- If I come up with anything worthwhile then maybe. ------- Any other stuff you like to add ? ------- No. ------- Do you know any other interesting problems ? ------- This one popped up on rec.puzzles. Use each of the digits 0-9 once only, plus any amount of the four basic arithmetic operations [ + - * / ] and parentheses to approximate pi as closely as possible. Concatenation of digits is allowed, but all other functions are strictly forbidden. My best solution to date is accurate to about 10 significant figures. ------- What's the meaning of life ? ------- The meaning of life is to discover the meaning of life. -------------------- Regards, Nick. _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ Message: 14 Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 21:04:15 +0100 From: "Paul White" Subject: this is me QUESTIONS -------------- What's your..... name : Paul White age : 19 occupation : Student city : Brighton country : England email : paul@white33.freeserve.co.uk homepage : www.white33.freeserve.co.uk ------- Are you an active problem-solver, or just here out of general interest ? ------- Active solver ------- Do you hope that by listening to this list, you'll get the vital hint that'll make you win the prize ? ------- I know that it is unlikely, but kind of. I like to find out about other people with the same interests too. ------- Do you own an Eternity puzzle ? ------- Yep, got it last week. ------- What's your best attempt by hand ? ------- About 180 ------- What's your best attempt by computer ? ------- My computer program has failed miserably. So far about 20. ------- What language / system / pc are you using ? ------- Using Visual Basic and C++. A PIII 500 Mhz system. ------- What algorithms / heuristics do you use for Eternity (brute force, backtracking, genetic algothims, simulated annealing, SECRET) ? ------- The general idea is brute force, with a little backtracking thrown in for good measure. ------- Did you type in all 209 pieces yourself ? ------- No, got them off a web site. ------- Did you try any simpler variations of Eternity ? ------- No, went straight for the bad boy. ------- Do you know some other interesting web-sites ? ------- Not many about Eternity, but lots about general interests like music. If you're looking to download mp3s, check out www.puremp3.org. ------- Other hobbies ? ------- Music, all kinds of sport, obviously computing. I don't get much time being at uni. ------- Other physical puzzles ? ------- Mostly just jigsaws, and those puzz 3d things. ------- Other programming projects ? ------- Lots. My time is mostly taken up by programming. Mainly sport based, like the wwf stuff on my website. ------- Are you willing to show the group your source code (after removing your secret functions) ? ------- Probably not worth it. I don't think it's much use to anyone. Better start again. ------- Any other stuff you like to add ? ------- Other stuff? Um, be cool! ------- Do you know any other interesting problems ? ------- Not really, pretty new to the puzzling lark. Quite interested in that whole parity thing. ------- What's the meaning of life ? ------- You what? To quote a song - "I'm free to say whatever I like, whether it's wrong or right it's alright." That's my general philosophy. Paul (paul@white33.freeserve.co.uk) _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ Message: 15 Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 22:46:38 +0200 From: "William Waite" Subject: Re: So, who are you guys, anyway ? name : William Waite age : 35 occupation : Prefer being unemployed, but currently working in a warehouse-- where my doctoral degree in music composition is of little help . . . city : Copenhagen country : Denmark email : waite@get2net.dk ------- Are you an active problem-solver, or just here out of general interest ? ------- Active solver, but quickly becoming inactive as far as Eternity is concerned. ; ) ------- Do you hope that by listening to this list, you'll get the vital hint that'll make you win the prize ? ------- There's always hope! ------- Do you own an Eternity puzzle ? ------- Yes ------- What's your best attempt by hand ? ------- Over 120 nicely placed with good coastline left, but decided to start over with a new strategy. ------- What's your best attempt by computer ? ------- None ------- What language / system / pc are you using ? ------- English and Danish/ color-coding my Eternity pieces/ a beige one ------- What algorithms / heuristics do you use for Eternity (brute force, backtracking, genetic algothims, simulated annealing, SECRET) ? ------- Hands and brain only. I am unfortunately not a computer nerd. ------- Did you try any simpler variations of Eternity ? ------- Yes, tridrafters, and I once designed a puzzle that used an american selection of 12 pentadrafters. ------- Do you know some other interesting web-sites ? ------- Yes, but we haven't been formally introduced. ------- Other hobbies ? ------- I collect small boxes. I have recently begun designing puzzles inspired by the design, shape, or decoration of the boxes. I then make pieces to fit/match the box from a wide range of materials. I have made 50 so far. ------- Other physical puzzles ? ------- I have collected mechanical puzzles for many years and I have also designed over 200 puzzles suddenly in the last year and a half. But normally I work as an artist--painting and composing (thus the warehouse job ; ) ------- Are you willing to show the group your source code (after removing your secret functions) ? ------- What is "source code"? ------- Any other stuff you like to add ? ------- I don't think the Eternity Pieces are ugly. I also think only the computer people have a real chance of solving it. ------- What's the meaning of life ? ------- Creativity in all its forms (or maybe sex) _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ Message: 16 Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 23:05:13 +0200 From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Pierre-Fran=E7ois_Culand?=" Subject: Re: So, who are you guys, anyway ? -----Message d'origine----- De : Andreas Gammel À : eternity@onelist.com Date : lundi, 28. juin 1999 15:51 Objet : [eternity] So, who are you guys, anyway ? Hi all, we just welcomed our 76th mailing list member. And still going strong. I thought it would be a nice idea to get to know the group a bit better. That's why I composed a little list of questions. I'd like you to fill it out, and send it to the list. just answer any question you feel like, but if you don't like it, then don't, its a free world... Andreas QUESTIONS -------------- What's your..... name : Pierre-François Culand age : 38 occupation : Computer scientist city : Le Mont-sur-Lausanne country : Switzerland email : pf_culand@bigfoot.com homepage : - ------- Are you an active problem-solver, or just here out of general interest ? ------- Active, just have a look at my first try: Eternity Screen Solver v1.0 at http://lalsoft.hypermart.net/ScreenSolver.htm (Freeware, for Windows). ------- Do you hope that by listening to this list, you'll get the vital hint that'll make you win the prize ? ------- Maybe... But first of all, I want to give a (very little) chance to all of non-programming guys without mathematic skills who believe they have a chance by hand... Eternity Screen Solver is for them ! ------- Do you own an Eternity puzzle ? ------- No. For what purpose ? ------- What's your best attempt by hand ? ------- 0 (not enough crazy to try... and too much lazy ! Who would try to empty the Pacific ocean using a fork... I prefer to use a spoon :-) ------- What's your best attempt by computer ? ------- 165 (Could easily add supplementary pieces but this position was established to be a dead end position by the program... so Eternity Screen Solver stopped there. Of course, E.S.S. was designed to search for a full solution to the Eternity puzzle, not to maximize the number of pieces placed in a dead-end position...) ------- What language / system / pc are you using ? ------- Delphi 4.0 / Windows. / pentium 400 celeron (plus your machine :-) ------- What algorithms / heuristics do you use for Eternity (brute force, backtracking, genetic algothims, simulated annealing, SECRET) ? ------- Brute force and backtracking with some added heuristics attempting to make the force a little less "brute" and a little more "clever". (150 clever moves by second are better than 1000000 stupid random piece drops per sec... Isn't it ?) ------- Did you type in all 209 pieces yourself ? ------- Yes I did. From a web published layout. ------- Did you try any simpler variations of Eternity ? ------- Yes, on a 36 dodecadrafters N30 hexagonal grid. ------- Do you know some other interesting web-sites ? ------- No. ------- Other hobbies ? ------- Guitar, Handball (as referee), Poker. ------- Other physical puzzles ? ------- - ------- Other programming projects ? ------- A poker program. ------- Are you willing to show the group your source code (after removing your secret functions) ? ------- Why not... as soon as I'll get the reward ;-) ------- Any other stuff you like to add ? ------- - ------- Do you know any other interesting problems ? ------- Yes... of course ! ------- What's the meaning of life ? ------- A model for artficial beings. _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ Message: 17 Date: Tue, 29 Jun 99 00:37 BST From: redbaron@cix.compulink.co.uk (Richard Marsden) Subject: Re: So, who are you guys, anyway ? In-Reply-To: <37775D09.CC323D16@oce.nl> name : Richard Marsden age : 26 occupation : geophysical software engineer city : Houston, TX country : US (British citizen though) email : redbaron@cix.co.uk homepage : http://www.cix.co.uk/~rigel/ ------- Are you an active problem-solver, or just here out of general interest ? ------- Not that active, but active with Eternity. ------- Do you hope that by listening to this list, you'll get the vital hint that'll make you win the prize ? ------- Maybe. Also bouncing/sharing of ideas. ------- Do you own an Eternity puzzle ? ------- One on order from Hamley's (alledgedly) ------- What's your best attempt by hand ? ------- n/a ------- What's your best attempt by computer ? ------- n/a (working on algorithms so far - I guess technically '1'!!) ------- What language / system / pc are you using ? ------- Dual PII@400/NT4 MSVC++ ------- What algorithms / heuristics do you use for Eternity (brute force, backtracking, genetic algothims, simulated annealing, SECRET) ? ------- Hybrid (see imminent email) ------- Did you type in all 209 pieces yourself ? ------- Took them off the WWW! ------- Did you try any simpler variations of Eternity ? ------- No ------- Do you know some other interesting web-sites ? ------- ------- Other hobbies ? ------- Soaring, Land Rovers,etc ------- Other programming projects ? ------- Work. Diabetes modelling (http://www.cix.co.uk/~rigel/cadie.htm) ------- Are you willing to show the group your source code (after removing your secret functions) ? ------- Some - probably. Not ready yet though. ------- Do you know any other interesting problems ? ------- Find x,y,z,n in x^n+y^n = z^n where x,y,z,n are all integers ------- What's the meaning of life ? ------- The question is "What is 6 times 9?" _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ Message: 18 Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 19:28:12 -0500 From: "Bob Harris" Subject: Re: So, who are you guys, anyway ? QUESTIONS -------------- What's your..... name : Bob Harris age : early forties (age, not birthdate) occupation : programmer city : Atlanta country : GA email : homepage : none ------- Are you an active problem-solver, or just here out of general interest ? ------- Yep. ------- Do you hope that by listening to this list, you'll get the vital hint that'll make you win the prize ? ------- No, but I won't be too disappointed if it happens. ------- Do you own an Eternity puzzle ? ------- Yes ------- What's your best attempt by hand ? ------- three or four pieces ------- What's your best attempt by computer ? ------- 170 pieces ------- What language / system / pc are you using ? ------- C on a Mac. ------- What algorithms / heuristics do you use for Eternity (brute force, backtracking, genetic algothims, simulated annealing, SECRET) ? ------- Neural net.... no, wait, that's not quite right... it's brute force in raster order. ------- Did you type in all 209 pieces yourself ? ------- yep, then traded info with another person and validated our results By the way, the puzzle's inventor may consider the distribution of enough info to reconstruct the piece set as a violation of his copyright. ------- Did you try any simpler variations of Eternity ? ------- No, but I've been solving other polyform puzzles since the 70's. ------- Do you know some other interesting web-sites ? ------- nah ------- Other hobbies ? ------- - backgammon ------- Other physical puzzles ? ------- - rubik's cube and other permutation puzzles - acrostics - rolling block puzzles ------- Other programming projects ? ------- gawd, too many to mention ------- Are you willing to show the group your source code (after removing your secret functions) ? ------- Not for everything ------- Any other stuff you like to add ? ------- numbers ------- Do you know any other interesting problems ? ------- gawd, too many to mention ------- What's the meaning of life ? ------- 42 _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ Message: 19 Date: 28 Jun 99 17:14:03 PDT From: david sprenkle Subject: Re: [[eternity] Known Pieces] david sprenkle wrote: From: david sprenkle What are all the known pieces for Eternity. I know that there are a few pieces that have been released to the public but do not want to buy all the puzzles to get them. I asked this question last week and did not get any responce to the question at hand. Is it because nobody wants to give up the known pieces or nobody actually knows any known pieces or they just don't exist. ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com. --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Books, music, videos, gifts, e-cards, auctions-find them at AMAZON.COM. Browse Earth's Biggest Selection! Enjoy everyday savings of up to 50%! Click Here ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com. _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ Message: 20 Date: Tue, 29 Jun 99 03:44 BST From: redbaron@cix.compulink.co.uk (Richard Marsden) Subject: Count check Hi guys & gals! Can anyone verify the following sum of combination counts: Let Ni = Number of different ways piece i can be positioned within the grid (assuming no other places are located). Sum(Ni) = 2715377 Anyone know if this is correct? I can tweak my diagnostics to come up with individual values of Ni as a further check... At the moment, I'm writing the reading in code. I'm using a grid based on the pieces published on the alpha.ujep.cz/~vicher website (I have a copy of Eternity in the post, alledgedly). Method of attack: It was pretty clear from the beginning that a brute-force depth-first search was impossible. (something like no. of possible combinations = particles in the Universe squared or something equally silly) Even a lot of pruning doesn't really help (this includes parity!!) I came up with 3 different methods: 1.) Depth first 2.) Mathematical (convert the problem to maths; solve the maths) 3.) Genetic/stochastic I've been attacking via #2, but the problem is discrete (obviously). Hence all those nice model-solving methods in all the books suddenly become NP-complete... Also, my early coding using this route and forgetting about the NP-complete problem, extrapolate to a solution within 2000 years... (okay I have two big speedups I can apply). I don't like Genetic/stochastic. As has already been pointed out by someone, there isn't a good metric to measure the 'fitness' of a potential solution. So, what am I about to attempt? A hybrid method. That is all I'm going to say at the moment. I'll reveal more as I get into it. If I reach a dead end, I'll publish my results. Richard _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ Message: 21 Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 13:16:37 +1000 From: "Brendan Owen" Subject: Re: Count check Hi All, > Hi guys & gals! > > Can anyone verify the following sum of combination counts: > > Let Ni = Number of different ways piece i can be positioned within the > grid (assuming no other places are located). > > Sum(Ni) = 2715377 I get 1372296, but I don't place any against the grain. Also the number you have isn't divisiable by 12 which it should be unless you are fixing one shape in a particular direction. Prod(Ni) = 6.466e+797 > > Anyone know if this is correct? > > I can tweak my diagnostics to come up with individual values of Ni as a > further check... This is my list of numbers i Ni ------ 0 6540 1 6420 2 6408 3 6480 4 6456 5 6468 6 6468 7 6420 8 6468 9 6468 10 6672 11 6540 12 6600 13 6600 14 6588 15 6600 16 6648 17 6648 18 6648 19 6672 20 6600 21 6648 22 6648 23 6528 24 6468 25 6600 26 6528 27 6528 28 6528 29 6600 30 6552 31 6600 32 6552 33 6540 34 6720 35 6600 36 6648 37 6588 38 6672 39 6588 40 6648 41 6588 42 6588 43 6468 44 6468 45 6456 46 6480 47 6648 48 6516 49 6516 50 6720 51 6720 52 6720 53 6720 54 6600 55 6588 56 6588 57 6648 58 6600 59 6588 60 6588 61 6600 62 6588 63 6588 64 6600 65 6516 66 6468 67 6348 68 6456 69 6384 70 6516 71 6444 72 6396 73 6516 74 6456 75 6576 76 6576 77 6480 78 6480 79 6528 80 6480 81 6432 82 6564 83 6516 84 6468 85 6516 86 6516 87 6468 88 6600 89 6588 90 6588 91 6648 92 6600 93 6648 94 6588 95 6600 96 6672 97 6528 98 6528 99 6480 100 6480 101 6576 102 6600 103 6648 104 6648 105 6600 106 6648 107 6648 108 6600 109 6600 110 6648 111 6600 112 6588 113 6600 114 6600 115 6588 116 6588 117 6588 118 6648 119 6636 120 6648 121 6696 122 6648 123 6636 124 6636 125 6600 126 6588 127 6600 128 6588 129 6468 130 6468 131 6528 132 6468 133 6516 134 6468 135 6468 136 6480 137 6516 138 6528 139 6528 140 6468 141 6504 142 6528 143 6576 144 6516 145 6564 146 6396 147 6648 148 6528 149 6576 150 6564 151 6564 152 6564 153 6516 154 6600 155 6600 156 6528 157 6528 158 6600 159 6672 160 6672 161 6468 162 6456 163 6468 164 6516 165 6468 166 6600 167 6600 168 6600 169 6600 170 6588 171 6648 172 6600 173 6648 174 6588 175 6588 176 6600 177 6588 178 6588 179 6468 180 6516 181 6552 182 6600 183 6600 184 6552 185 6600 186 6648 187 6588 188 6600 189 6600 190 6588 191 6600 192 6588 193 6588 194 6588 195 6588 196 6588 197 6648 198 6600 199 6588 200 6540 201 6600 202 6588 203 6588 204 6648 205 6588 206 6600 207 6588 208 6588 _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ Message: 22 Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 11:32:33 +0800 From: path@multipro.com.au Subject: Re: Count check Patrick M Hamlyn@MULTIPROGRAMMING 06/29/99 11:32 AM >This is my list of numbers >i Ni >------ >0 6540 >1 6420 >2 6408 >3 6480 >4 6456 These agree with my counts, but only when I turn off some checks to remove no-hoper placements (these only remove a few hundred placements per piece from around the edges) _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ Message: 23 Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 08:33:33 +0200 From: Andreas Gammel Subject: if I had a 1000.000.... Good morning, well it's morning here in Holland and raining (it's summer, so I good have known) I don't know what happened this night, but 25 new people subscribed to the list in 12 hours! We just passed out century break! We are now at 102 people!. We even have 2 or 3 ladies in our midst now. Welcome, ladies! Here's another interesting thought I spend a lot of time thinking about: "How are you going to spend your 1000.000 pounds ?" cheers Andreas _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ Message: 24 Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 03:23:04 -0600 From: "Larry Knerr" Subject: Re: So, who are you guys, anyway? QUESTIONS -------------- name : Larry Knerr age : 39 occupation : lumber grader city : Chetwynd, BC country : Canada email : Larry_Knerr@hotmail.com home page : not yet ------- Are you an active problem-solver, or just here out of general interest ? ------- I like piece-fitting puzzles, though I haven't had a lot of time to work on them. I made up a bunch for the Stockdale Super Square some years back. After I retire this fall I'd like to write a program that would let one work on many different kinds of them. ------- Do you hope that by listening to this list, you'll get the vital hint that'll make you win the prize ? ------- Not much. The clues from the other puzzles might be useful (or not). Mostly I'm interested in reading what people who are interested and actively working on this have to say. ------- Do you own an Eternity puzzle ? ------- It's on order. Maybe August it'll be here. ------- What's your best attempt by hand ? ------- ------- What's your best attempt by computer ? ------- ------- What language / system / pc are you using ? ------- Borland C++ Builder 4 / Celeron 400 ------- What algorithms / heuristics do you use for Eternity (brute force, backtracking, genetic algorithms, simulated annealing, SECRET) ? ------- I'll use backtracking. I don't have a big enough brute. ------- Did you type in all 209 pieces yourself ? ------- Yeah (sigh). Made about thirty mistakes. ------- Did you try any simpler variations of Eternity ? ------- No ------- Do you know some other interesting web-sites ? ------- ------- Other hobbies ? ------- Reading. ------- Other physical puzzles ? ------- ------- Other programming projects ? ------- ------- Are you willing to show the group your source code (after removing your secret functions) ? ------- I'm just getting to the 'secret functions' part. In the meantime, I have two weeks worth of big-ball-o'-binder-twine C (I kept changing my mind about how I wanted to represent the pieces) for Builder. I won't support it, and there's probably a bug or two left, but it seems to have the grid (rotated 30° ), the pieces and their rotations working/displaying correctly (and colorfully). I think the format is reasonably efficient. If you have BCBuilder, you can just write in your own solver and use my piece arrays and display routines. I will assume the people on this list will share the prize if they use my code, so I'll e-mail or post this stage of my source if asked. ------- Any other stuff you like to add ? ------- ------- Do you know any other interesting problems ? ------- ------- What's the meaning of life ? ------- Life. _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________