From: To: Subject: [eternity] Digest Number 6 Date: Wednesday, June 30, 1999 5:38 AM --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- ONElist members are using Shared Files in great ways! http://www.onelist.com Are you? If not, see our homepage for details. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ There are 12 messages in this issue. Topics in today's digest: 1. Solutions to the Heart puzzle From: lard@hotmail.com 2. Re: So, who are you guys, anyway ? From: Martijn Mooij 3. Re: Count check From: redbaron@cix.compulink.co.uk (Richard Marsden) 4. Re: So, who are you guys, anyway ? From: "Turner, Graham W" 5. Re: So, who are you guys, anyway ? From: MasterMB@aol.com 6. Re: Opinion please From: Jeanette Hauser 7. Getting Eternity in the States From: Derrick Schneider 8. Re: [Re: [eternity] Opinion please] From: david sprenkle 9. Re: So, who are you guys, anyway ? From: "Robert Charlton" 10. Re: So, who are you guys (and gals), anyway ? From: "Ruxton, Alison" 11. So, who are you guys, anyway ? From: Bernat Pina 12. Re: Opinion please From: "Larry Knerr" _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ Message: 1 Date: 29 Jun 1999 12:03:22 -0000 From: lard@hotmail.com Subject: Solutions to the Heart puzzle In response to Mike Dunne only finding 1 solution, my program has generated over 1000 solutions so far and is still running. I have verified about a dozen of these (picked at random) by hand. Message: 20 Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 10:18:29 +0100 From: "Dunne, Mike" Even if there is only > one combination, which I don't believe having currently got over 400 > solutions for the delta puzzle, ... Jason, I don't want to depress you, but have you solved the heart puzzle ? I've analysed all possible positions and found only 1 solution ! (ignoring symmety's and ignoring the possibility of a bug in my program). Can anyone else verify this ?Mike. _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 05:46:57 PDT From: Martijn Mooij Subject: Re: So, who are you guys, anyway ? QUESTIONS -------------- What's your..... name : Martijn mooij age : 27 occupation : programmer / mathematician city : Rotterdam country : the Netherlands email : mnamooij@hotmail.com homepage : no ------- Are you an active problem-solver, or just here out of general Interest ? ------- I'm an active puzzler ------- Do you hope that by listening to this list, you'll get the vital hint that'll make you win the prize ? ------- I don't think there will be one vital hint and the rules seem to say that people in the Netherlands can not win the prize ! ------- Do you own an Eternity puzzle ? ------- cut from paper, I'm looking for one ------- What's your best attempt by hand ? ------- 20 ------- What's your best attempt by computer ? ------- the EternityScreenSolver from Swiss Knife software has got me to 117 ------- What language / system / pc are you using ? ------- I'm planning to use this problem to learn java / Win95 / pentium II ------- What algorithms / heuristics do you use for Eternity (brute force, backtracking, genetic algothims, simulated annealing, SECRET) ? ------- brute force and simulated annealing ------- Did you type in all 209 pieces yourself ? ------- no, I took the list from Vicher ------- Did you try any simpler variations of Eternity ? ------- I found the solution to the delta puzzle while I was looking for just the pieces. That spoiled my fun there ------- Do you know some other interesting web-sites ? ------- yes ------- Other hobbies ? ------- waterpolo ------- Other physical puzzles ? ------- soma cube, pentomino and some others ------- Other programming projects ? ------- the 24-game, you know: make 24 from the numbers (1,3,4 and 6) or (3,3,7 and 7) or (4,4,6 and 6) ------- Are you willing to show the group your source code (after removing our secret functions) ? ------- if it works and someone asks: yes ------- Any other stuff you like to add ? ------- ------- Do you know any other interesting problems ? ------- i know at least two - Can you use a submarine to go from Oostende (Belgium) to Dover (England) in a straight line ? - What's the meaning of life ? _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 29 Jun 99 13:47 BST From: redbaron@cix.compulink.co.uk (Richard Marsden) Subject: Re: Count check In-Reply-To: <000d01bec1dd$cc34d420$0400a8c0@its.unimelb.edu.au> In article <000d01bec1dd$cc34d420$0400a8c0@its.unimelb.edu.au>, bdowen@ee.mu.oz.au (Brendan Owen) wrote: > > I get 1372296, but I don't place any against the grain. Also the > number you > have isn't divisiable by 12 which it should be unless you are fixing one > shape in a particular direction. > > Prod(Ni) = 6.466e+797 Thanks - I wasn't that confident in my rotation code. Hmm ,yes I tihnk you're right about /12 bit. Not sure about this "placing against the grain" - the pictures on the WWW sites don't show it very well. I'll have another look at my code this evening. Thanks for the listings fir each piece - that will be useful to check my code. Richard _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ Message: 4 Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 16:08:04 +0100 From: "Turner, Graham W" Subject: Re: So, who are you guys, anyway ? > QUESTIONS > -------------- > What's your..... > > name : Graham Turner > age : 26 > occupation : Software Engineer > city : Guildford > country : England > email : turnergw@logica.com > homepage : http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Pines/7516/ (Badly > needs updating!) > > ------- > Are you an active problem-solver, or just here out of general interest ? > ------- Active, generally speaking. Not all that active, but I enjoy a good puzzle when I have the time. > ------- > Do you hope that by listening to this list, you'll get the vital hint > that'll make you win the prize ? > ------- I'd like to think so, but I can't help but feel that it's unlikely! > ------- > Do you own an Eternity puzzle ? > ------- Yes > ------- > What's your best attempt by hand ? > ------- About 100 pieces. > ------- > What's your best attempt by computer ? > ------- None so far, I'm still thinking about how to do it, and trying to find some time. > ------- > What language / system / pc are you using ? > ------- PC (Pentium 166), C > ------- > What algorithms / heuristics do you use for Eternity > (brute force, backtracking, genetic algothims, simulated annealing, > SECRET) ? > ------- Not sure yet. Basically brute force with any trimming I can come up with. > ------- > Did you type in all 209 pieces yourself ? > ------- No > ------- > Did you try any simpler variations of Eternity ? > ------- Done the one on the eternity web site and a few of the tridrafter type puzzles on Ed Pegg's page. > ------- > Do you know some other interesting web-sites ? > ------- Far too many to list ... > ------- > Other hobbies ? > ------- Writing music, juggling, waterskiing, drinking > ------- > Other physical puzzles ? > ------- > > ------- > Other programming projects ? > ------- Too many - it's my job > ------- > Are you willing to show the group your source code (after removing your > secret functions) ? > ------- Absolutely. Got to write it first though ... > ------- > Any other stuff you like to add ? > ------- An interesting and useful list. Let's hope it helps some of us! > ------- > Do you know any other interesting problems ? > ------- Am I more likely to make money out of Eternity, or the National Lottery? > ------- > What's the meaning of life ? > ------- Life is a sexually transmitted, fatal disease > > > _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ Message: 5 Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 23:08:26 EDT From: MasterMB@aol.com Subject: Re: So, who are you guys, anyway ? QUESTIONS -------------- What's your..... name : Marc Becker age : 45 occupation : Software Engineer city : Manalapan NJ country : USA email : mastermb@aol.com homepage : none ------- Are you an active problem-solver, or just here out of general interest ? ------- Active from time to time. I conquered Rubik's Cube several years back and now impress my friends with it for amusement. ------- Do you hope that by listening to this list, you'll get the vital hint that'll make you win the prize ? ------- Of course. Anyone who says different is kidding. ------- Do you own an Eternity puzzle ? ------- No - where the heck do you find them in the States? ------- What's your best attempt by hand ? ------- Haven't tried yet. ------- What's your best attempt by computer ? ------- Still working on the program. ------- What language / system / pc are you using ? Intel Pentium II - trying to write it in Java (in order to better learn Java) ------- What algorithms / heuristics do you use for Eternity (brute force, backtracking, genetic algothims, simulated annealing, SECRET) ? ------- I'm not sure what you would call it. Brute force sounds about right. ------- Did you type in all 209 pieces yourself ? ------- No - not yet ------- Did you try any simpler variations of Eternity ? ------- No. ------- Do you know some other interesting web-sites ? ------- None worth mentioning to this crowd. ------- Other hobbies ? ------- Writing novels. Chauffeuring my kids around. ------- Other physical puzzles ? ------- Rubiks Cube ------- Other programming projects ? ------- Just at work. ------- Are you willing to show the group your source code (after removing your secret functions) ? ------- After the check clears.... :-) ------- Any other stuff you like to add ? ------- Some thoughtful stuff here after only a week! ------- Do you know any other interesting problems ? ------- 1- Where do you find the Eternity Puzzle in the US (preferably in New York City)?? 2- Would like to try to figure out how to spend the million - oh yeah, on my kids college education, then retirement. ------- What's the meaning of life ? ------- Keeping your mind stimulated enough to fight off Alzheimers. _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ Message: 6 Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 21:34:14 -0700 From: Jeanette Hauser Subject: Re: Opinion please Do you guys think that a computer program is essential to solving the Puzzle? Or can one possibly "get lucky" and discover the solution by old time, manual, let's just move the pieces 'round until we get it right methods? _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ Message: 7 Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 22:11:48 -0700 From: Derrick Schneider Subject: Getting Eternity in the States A couple of people have mentioned the problem of getting Eternity in the States, so I thought I'd pitch in. Where do you get Eternity in the States? You don't, at least not yet. However, if you go to http://www.hotbox.co.uk, you will find that you can order it (and its kin) fairly easily. There might also be a way from http://www.eterinity-puzzle.co.uk, but that might just point to Hotbox. Hope that helps all the State-siders! Derrick _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ Message: 8 Date: 29 Jun 99 22:31:38 PDT From: david sprenkle Subject: Re: [Re: [eternity] Opinion please] I think a computer will crack it. I think it will be a creative algorithm though, not just a straight brute force attempt. Do you guys think that a computer program is essential to solving the Puzzle? Or can one possibly "get lucky" and discover the solution by old time, manual, let's just move the pieces 'round until we get it right methods? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Attention ONElist list owners. http://www.onelist.com Check out the new "DEFAULT MODERATED STATUS" option. See homepage. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com. _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ Message: 9 Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 09:21:06 +0100 From: "Robert Charlton" Subject: Re: So, who are you guys, anyway ? >QUESTIONS >-------------- >What's your..... > >name : Rob Charlton >age : 27 >occupation : Engineering manager for Symbian >city : London >country : UK >email : robert@robcharlton.freeserve.co.uk >homepage : > >------- >Are you an active problem-solver, or just here out of general interest ? > >------- > Active > >------- >Do you hope that by listening to this list, you'll get the vital hint >that'll make you win the >prize ? >------- > Possibly >------- >Do you own an Eternity puzzle ? >------- > Yes >------- >What's your best attempt by hand ? >------- > About 80 pieces >------- >What's your best attempt by computer ? >------- > Not that far yet >------- >What language / system / pc are you using ? >------- > Celeron 333, Win 98, MSVC 5.0, MFC for my sins >------- >What algorithms / heuristics do you use for Eternity >(brute force, backtracking, genetic algothims, simulated annealing, >SECRET) ? >------- > Not got that far yet, but my program can draw lots of pretty triangles, save and load them to disk and print them out. Always start on the most important things is my motto. >------- >Did you type in all 209 pieces yourself ? >------- > No, I found them on the web in computer readable form from a link at www.mathpuzzle.com >------- >Did you try any simpler variations of Eternity ? >------- > Only in Hamleys (toy shop) but they weren't on sale >------- >Do you know some other interesting web-sites ? >------- > I don't think so - which do you know of? >------- >Other hobbies ? >------- > Drinking, socialising >------- >Other physical puzzles ? >------- > Getting up for work >------- >Other programming projects ? >------- > Work >------- >Are you willing to show the group your source code (after removing your >secret functions) ? >------- > You'll all laugh. No, honestly. >------- >Any other stuff you like to add ? >------- > >------- >Do you know any other interesting problems ? >------- > >------- >How are going to spend your 1000.000 pounds ? >------- > BIG party >------- >What's the meaning of life ? >------- > It certainly isn't moving funny shaped bits of plastic inside a dodecahedron > > > _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ Message: 10 Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 09:30:58 +0100 From: "Ruxton, Alison" Subject: Re: So, who are you guys (and gals), anyway ? Ok, here's a response from one of the females on the list (well actually two of them because I'm subscribed to the list twice (work and personal email accounts). > >QUESTIONS > > >-------------- > >What's your..... > > > >name : Alison Ruxton > >age : ? > >occupation : Computer Consultant > >city : London > >country : UK > >email : ruxtona@logica.com or alison@aruxton.freeserve.co.uk > >homepage : > > > >------- > >Are you an active problem-solver, or just here out of general interest ? > > > >------- > > > Active > > > >------- > >Do you hope that by listening to this list, you'll get the vital hint > >that'll make you win the > >prize ? > >------- > > I doubt it very much, I don't think anyone will give away any hints unless they've already won the prize. > >------- > >Do you own an Eternity puzzle ? > >------- > > > Yes > >------- > >What's your best attempt by hand ? > >------- > > > About 25 pieces > >------- > >What's your best attempt by computer ? > >------- > > Not written a program yet. > >------- > >What language / system / pc are you using ? > >------- > > PC or perhaps Unix. > >------- > >What algorithms / heuristics do you use for Eternity > >(brute force, backtracking, genetic algothims, simulated annealing, > >SECRET) ? > >------- > > Start with a brute force method and then modify it to avoid dead ends etc. > >------- > >Did you type in all 209 pieces yourself ? > >------- > > > No. > >------- > >Did you try any simpler variations of Eternity ? > >------- > > I solve the one on the Official Eternity web site and played around with the hexagonal Eternity puzzle in Hamleys. > >------- > >Do you know some other interesting web-sites ? > >------- > > Yes, but none relating to puzzles. http://www.sunderland-afc.com is a good one. > >------- > >Other hobbies ? > >------- > > Football, Genealogy and motherhood > >------- > >Other physical puzzles ? > >------- > > Getting my son to go to bed and the Bedlam cube (which was solved by a friend who wrote a computer program that solved it overnight!). > >------- > >Other programming projects ? > >------- > > Only those I write for a living. > >------- > >Are you willing to show the group your source code (after removing your > >secret functions) ? > >------- > > If I write any yes but it'll be pretty basic stuff. > >------- > >How are going to spend your 1000.000 pounds ? > >------- > > Buy a house, a box at Sunderland AFC and set up a trust fund for my son. > >------- > >What's the meaning of life ? > >------- > > Be happy and enjoy yourself. _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ Message: 11 Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 11:32:05 +0200 From: Bernat Pina Subject: So, who are you guys, anyway ? Hi, name : Bernat Pina age : 24 occupation : Computer programming city : Barcelona country : Spain email : bpina@ubisoft.es homepage : not yet ------- Are you an active problem-solver, or just here out of general interest ? ------- Not at all, but I like solving puzzles with computer (at last try it) ------- Do you hope that by listening to this list, you'll get the vital hint that'll make you win the prize ? ------- Maybe ... the inspiration is the best step ------- Do you own an Eternity puzzle ? ------- No ------- What's your best attempt by hand ? ------- When I buy the puzzle I will try to solve it, but now ... I can't ------- What's your best attempt by computer ? ------- I'm begginning with other simple exercices, not the Eternity one ------- What language / system / pc are you using ? ------- Turbo C++ on DOS. Pentium II - 233 Mhz, 64 Ram ------- What algorithms / heuristics do you use for Eternity (brute force, backtracking, genetic algothims, simulated annealing, SECRET) ? ------- Some brute force cloaked with (I hope) intelligent decisions ------- Did you type in all 209 pieces yourself ? ------- No, I got from the Web ------- Did you try any simpler variations of Eternity ? ------- More than variations I'm essaing with little puzzle exercices ------- Do you know some other interesting web-sites ? ------- No, but there are a lot of info that could be very useful there ------- Other hobbies ? ------- Sport, drink&dance, travel (when I can), read, ... ------- Other physical puzzles ? ------- None for the moment ------- Other programming projects ? ------- My work ------- Are you willing to show the group your source code (after removing your secret functions) ? ------- Maybe at the end ------- Any other stuff you like to add ? ------- Mmmmm, not yet ------- Do you know any other interesting problems ? ------- Yes, the life is an interesting problem to solve ------- How are going to spend your 1000.000 pounds ? ------- I try not thinking about that, but ... traveling a lot and living ------- What's the meaning of life ? ------- Well, I think it's the recursive meaning of all things ------- Lucky for all, _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________ Message: 12 Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 02:41:28 -0600 From: "Larry Knerr" Subject: Re: Opinion please I think we don't know enough yet to tell you the best way. Monckton designed it to be impossible to solve with a computer, but we have some very smart, very creative programmers here. (And me.) Who can resist a challenge like that? I can tell you that I'm going to try both and see if I can apply what I learn from one method to the other. And I can give you an analogy which may or may not turn out to be apt: I was playing with Clifford Pickover's 'Worm World' puzzle a few years back (put random numbers from 0-24 on an 8x8 grid and try to find the longest path with no number repeated). I was able to solve it a lot faster than the programs he had in his 'Keys to Infinity' book, but increasing the grid and number range enough made it effectively impossible for even my program. But I found that after playing with them that long I was finding ways to do them by hand; I was getting a sort of 'second level' of pattern perception. Then I quit, so I never found out if I could put that next stage into an algorithm. ;( The longer you see this list going without someone solving it, the more likely it is that it'll be solved by someone who's been playing with it by hand 'til they can 'feel' it. > From: Jeanette Hauser > > Do you guys think that a computer program is essential to solving the > Puzzle? Or can one possibly "get lucky" and discover the solution by > old time, manual, let's just move the pieces 'round until we get it > right methods? _______________________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________